[_____________]: Go ahead, laugh, but when we win this war and the rest of the world loves us (and Bush), it's gonna be shoved srtaight up your gay loving democrat asses

[amalie]: who cares if you win, think of all the life that already is destroyed because of him

[PixieStickChick]: That was uncalled for. Please rephase your statement.

[amalie]: it was werry childish

[Peregrinus]: Heh, "win"... I find that really comical, actually... this war isn't about winning or loosing, in the classical sense. It's perpetual. It's not meant to actually come to an end.

[_____________]: Yes, but think of all the lives he has saved. What do you think we are trying to DO in Iraq? Blow it up? I think not. We are trying to help the people there have a better life. What should we have done? Sat around and drink tea while our WORLD TRADE CENTERS, Our SYMBOLS OF PEACE were DESROYED? My dad went to Iraq for a year, and not once did children come and throw stones at him. NOT ONCE, did someone curse him out or yell obseen things at him. Everyday they thanked him for helping them get their country together where it would have been impossible for them to do on their own. I'm sorry, but I believe him more than I do Dan Rathers and CNN, thank you very much.

[Peregrinus]: Look, I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Sadam was bad for the world in general. But he wasn't even involved in the Trade Center attacks.

[_____________]: I never said a think about Sadam. Do you actually think that everything Bush is doing for our counrty is wrong?

[Peregrinus]: Not everything, by any means. Just most things. And what does that have to do with the supposed link between the trade Center attacks and Iraq?

[_____________]: I know I am being extremely childsh. Please fogive me, but GOD some of the things you all say and think really piss me off when you have no right TO think it. Have you been to these placed and experiences these things?

[Peregrinus]: You're avoiding my question.

[_____________]: Which?

[Peregrinus]: What does any of this have to do with the supposed link between the Trade Center attacks and Iraq? You said, "What should we have done? Sat around and drink tea while our WORLD TRADE CENTERS, Our SYMBOLS OF PEACE were DESROYED?" I want to know how you think Iraq and the attacks on the Trade Centers are related.

[PixieStickChick]: "some of the things you all say and think really piss me off when you have no right TO think it"   So now we have no right to think independantly???

[_____________]: That is a good question actually and you ahve stumped me. I suppose I just automatically asumed that considering the two "problems" shall we say, occured in the same time frame, I associated the two. My mistake.

[Peregrinus]: Good point. That was a rather ill-thought out comment, Sumi. WHo are you to say what we do and do not have the right to think?

[Peregrinus]: Precisely. There is no correlation. Hence, one must wonder our true reasons for going to Iraq in the first place.

[Peregrinus]: Look, you shouldn't feel dumb, you should learn. That's what all this is about. Admitting your mistakes and learning from them. Having a open mind to these things is crucial to indepndant thought.

[amalie]: probaly not....oh and by the way on the subjekt of the twin towers..who trained the leader for them.....U.S.a

[Peregrinus]: True as well. We even trained Bin Laden himself.

[PixieStickChick]: So lets get this straight. We went into Iraq yet no one knows why, and then not only did we go into another country with no apparent reason but when Bush sent people to "find" Bin Laden, how many months did he wait until he took action?

[_____________]: Though there is no DIRECT connection to us going to Iraq and the 9/11 attack, Sadam and his group had supported Al-quaida in the past, and Iraq being a terrorist nation, we thought they may have some similar thoughts as Al-quaida did. We also suspected Sadam and his group to have nuclear weapons that if they decided to, could easily use on us, and that is why we went to Iraq, and a bit of the association Iraq and the trade centers attack had, Though I must admitt, it is not a huge relation.

[amalie]: nope bush jr wanted to finnish what his daddy started several years erlyer..thats all

[PixieStickChick]: So there was only suspicions and there was no eveidence of the connection between 9/11 and Iraq, and there was no proof of Iraq having nuclear weapons. So remind me why we went into Iraq, cause I'm just a tad bit confised?

[_____________]: You can't just wait around. What if they DID infact have weaponary. We can't sit here until we are sure because half of New York is anilated! No one ever got anywhere by making sure their suspisions were positive before taking action!

[amalie]: ive never said you shuld feel dumb, but your erlyer coment aboth the democrats and gay people was not exatly smart...

[Black_Dragon_123]: We checked and checked and checked for weaponry. And in the meantime, we KNEW that North Korea was DEVELOPING weapons, and what did we do? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!

[kduncan]: It's quite common for Bush supporters (not only in this wiki, but in the US in general) to say that people who don't support the Bush administration have no rights.. period. People who protest the current administration have been arrested, not permitted to fly on airlines, interrogated, investigated, have seen their right to vote taken away, and have generally been harassed by law enforcement officials. So when SumiKurouppi Enkeyn says, "..some of the things you all say and think really piss me off when you have no right TO think it" we shouldn't really be surprised. Let's remember, that this is the single most repressive administration to govern the US in history.

[kduncan]: The Bush administration, despite two years of investigations now, has come up with NO concrete proof that Hussein was supporting al Qaida. They have come up with no concrete proof of any WMD program currently in place, in fact, the evidence has proven the opposite: it has proven that Hussein was complying with UN sanctions. Hussein and bin Laden were not friends by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, Hussein was a dictator, yes Hussein had thousands of people arrested, held, tortured, and murdered.. but so has Bush at this point. Yes, Bush HAS commited war crimes. Bush has bucked scientific evidence regarding global warming, saying it doesn't exsist. He has bankrupted the US. Yes.. we are

[kduncan]: BANKRUPT as a nation. This leaves us vulnerable to those countries holding our notes and properties. Is Bush out to destroy the US? No, I don't believe he is, however, he is out to provide favour to friends and personal allies - and hes quite willing to do this at the expense of the American taxpayer. Who is going tobe left holding the financial debt of the current administration? The kids in high school and junior high school today. Retirement? Not for you guys. Social security is currently bankrupt. Better plan now on providing your own retirement plan. Americans with Disabilites? Better hope you're able to work the rest of your life, Bush has crippled (no pun intended) the American's with

[kduncan]: Disabilites laws. Corporate employee? Better hope they like every single thing about you, because in many states you can now be fired for no reason at all. If your boss doesn't like the way you look s/he can fire you with no reason given. Yes, watch your civil rights be taken away a handful at a time under the Bush administration. Powell was calling the Ukraine elections invalid? We need to take a look at our own elections right here in the US: we need a recount.

[kduncan]: And let's talk about "No Child Left Behind" for a moment. This is a program that withholds federal funding from PUBLIC schools in which the students don't meet certain standardised test minimums. Those funds are in turn given to schools in which the students ARE excelling. Now, I may not be a rocket scientist, but doesn't it make sense to give additional funding to schools in which students actually NEED help, than to withhold funding from them and give it to students who DON'T need the extra help? Once again, Bush has proven that he's got the whole damned thing bassackwards. Here's your challenge, SumiKurouppi Enkeyn, if you can stomach it: Go to a homelss shelter this Christmas and look

[kduncan]: into their eyes, and tell them that their President was doing what was best for them when he cut federal funding to the programs that help abused women. Go to a school, and tell the child who can't read because his school could no longer afford a tutor for him due to cuts in federal funding that his President did it for his own good. Go to a veteran's hospital and tell some of the residents there that they can't get their pain meds anymore because their President thought it was in their best interest to cut the programs that provided those meds. Then you can go to Washington, and given Cheney a pat on the back for spending billions of dollars ripping a country apart so that his former

[kduncan]: employer can be paid billions to rebuild it, to make billions on the oil that is Iraq's one natural resource worth a damn. Oh, and by the way, while you're there, do you think maybe you could talk DeLay into doing the right thing and step down from office. I mean, after all, he's forced a Democrat or two out of office for far less than he's been found guilty of.

[Peregrinus]: Amen man. SumiKurouppi Enkeyn, I must ask: in light of the information presented by Kduncan, here, how would you justify the things this administration is doing?

[Dil*]: ....you really can't.

[Rondel]: I found a quote recently, and immediately thought of you folks; so, here it is: "...the larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, the first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide...the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre... The presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people... On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach

[Rondel]: their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a moron." -- H.L. Mencken, writing in The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

[kduncan]: SumiKurouppi Enkeyn: "I'm sorry, maybe I over-reacted a bit, but to diss a man with such honor, in such a difficult position is cowardly and cruel." If Bush was truly a person of honour, he would have bellied up and gone to Viet Nam when his number was drawn rather than letting someone else's brother, father, son, boyfiriend go for him. Honour? He doesn't understand what the word means. He relies on his family's name and money to get by in life. I'm not particularly fond of kerry, but at least he went to Viet Nam and didn't pull the rich kid's trump card: college and/or stateside National Guard service.

[kduncan]: Rondel, I've said in this forum somewhere that, unfortunately, we've finally gotten the President we deserve. Unfortunately, the US has become of nation of people who make decisions on everything from where to eat (few actually cook from "scratch anymore, in fact, few people actually cook), to what to drive, to where to live, to where to vacation, to who to elect to public office based on commercials and five minute soundbytes. Few people actually research the candidates running for office. It's interesting to note that the most informative, interesting Presidential debate for this past election was the debate by the third party candidates.

[kduncan]: Here's a hint for the next election in the US: research the contributors to the various the candidates, that'll tell you just about everything you need to know. The upside is that a listing of contributions must be made available to the public, and is often available through your local Supervisor of Elections

[kduncan]: SumiKurouppi Enkeyn: "My dad went to Iraq for a year, and not once did children come and throw stones at him. NOT ONCE, did someone curse him out or yell obseen things at him. Everyday they thanked him for helping them get their country together where it would have been impossible for them to do on their own. I'm sorry, but I believe him more than I do Dan Rathers and CNN, thank you very much." Well, SumiKurouppi Enkeyn, although no one would claim these days that Viet Nam was a righteous war, a good war, my father served in Viet Nam, and I heard a lot of the same type statements that you're hearing from your father about Iraq.

[kduncan]: At the time he said that the Vietnamese people were happy to have us there, and he actually worked with the Vietnamese people. His job was restoring and building power plants, so his division was well-liked. Let's not forget though, that thousands of Americans in Viet Nam were being killed by Vietnamese people. One can not judge the attitude of a majority of the people of a nation by interacting with a small miniority. Unlike Viet Nam at the time of the war, Iraq is not an undeveloped country. In fact, Iraq is (was) quite a modern, industrialised nation. It was also one of the most liberal of all middle eastern countries.

[kduncan]: If Bush is truly concerned about "liberating" repressed people, he'd be better to look to liberating the people of our middle eastern allie: Saudi Arabia.

[Rondel]: What I found most interesting about that quote, [kduncan] (and anyone else reading this), wasn't as much the content as the date. I found it interesting that this comment predated our modern media-related political marketing trend. It's not new news, but it's interesting to see just how old the news is.

[Rondel]: As regards the rest of your statements, I can't think of anything to add at the moment, except my agreement. Individual cases do not outweigh large-scale trends, however much they may diverge from them. (At least, this is true if what you're looking at is the large scale; if you're trying to understand the individual, that's different.)

[LPrebelchick14]: Bush sucks and we are screwed for the next four years

[Tiezu Star]: 0.0 . . . did i miss much?

[bluefarie]: i dunno...

[kduncan]: Anyone else get the feeling that the Democrats and the Republicans might have been in collusion this past presidential election?

[Peregrinus]: They're the same party, really.

[kduncan]: Odd, our administration speaks against abortion, but doesn't support the idea of fighting infant mortality in developing nations. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/12/06/oxfam.aid.ap/index.html If only we could direct exactly where our taxes went. Imagine being able to tell the IRS: "No, I don't want to pay for some senator's third quadruple bypass, I'd like my money to go toward fighting hunger in Sudan please."

[Rondel]: I've wished for that capacity more than once, myself! <LOL> "I'd like the military to buy all of its toilet seats at the local hardware store, if need be, and the rest of my $600/seat can go to Plenty -- the folks who use the most minimal resources to do the greatest good on the most humanly accessible level -- please..."

[CHRISTIAN HIPPY]: hey peps just got to say this, my brother is over in iraq right now posibly getting his head shot at by people that dont have the slightest concept of peace. anyways the point of this is to say that if he turns up dead bushes head will roll. 

[kduncan]: Hopefully Bush's head will roll anyway, we can start with election fraud and go from there. I hope your brother stays safe over there.

[Maurer's conclusions]: But I think it is unfair to say that the Iraqis have no sense of peace, when the US government is the one who has steamrolled into their country, like harbingers of war.

[kduncan]: I have to agree with you Ertarkano.

[Peregrinus]: Yep. 'nuf said.

[bluefarie]: yep...

[bluefarie]: someone should make a banner 2 support our troops...after all it's not their fault that they're over there...

[Rondel]: My favorite saying (something I can say with heartfelt conviction) on the topic is this: "Support our troops -- bring them home!" It is not the fault of the soldiers that they are where they are, but one can't resign one's conscience to someone else's authority, even one's military superiors. Even the Nuremberg trials articulated that "if a soldier is given an order which is morally, ethically, and legally wrong, they are at fault if they follow it, even if they face strict penalties for not doing so." I cannot, and will not, say of any specific soldier that they are committing war crimes -- but it's become pretty clear that some folks are; and they couldn't, if they weren't at war.

[elven lady of the sea]: I agree with what Rondell is saying.

[bluefarie]: i know but, some r proud 2 fight 4 our cause even if our president is stupid...

[Rondel]: Some are indeed proud, and view it as "our cause", yet others are concerned that the cause they are sent to fight for is not one that they truly believe should be supported, so they find themselves caught between their duty to support the military of which they are a part, and their conscience. I truly feel for those people.

[Rondel]: I found an interesting quote today, which seemed rather apt for this forum, especially considering some of the statements regularly made here: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Virginia Woolf

[bluefarie]: that's such a great qoute! i agree w/ every thing u say...i was just saying that someone sould make a banner 4 them...

[Rondel]: Banner for who? <scrolls up and checks> Oh yeah, duh, banner for the troops. Gotcha. Speaking of quotes though, I recently came across an amazingly wonderful collection of quotes from American presidents (G.W. Bush included), which I would love to share with this group; but, I'm not quite sure how to do so -- it's a couple of printed pages worth of them. Maybe I should post them to the debate/discussion forum?

[bluefarie]: sure... :)

[Rondel]: Thanks for the response, [bluefarie]. I've posted it, and I'd be interested in comments on the new article full of presidential quotes posted on the Bush Haters Association debate,discuss.

[kduncan]: Thanks for the quotes, Rondel. It's bizarre how oddly prophetic some of these are.. scary even.

[Rondel]: "There is nothing new under the sun." -- Ecclesiastes "Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

[Peregrinus]: Truer now than ever.

[kduncan]: We all know that in corporate America, money speaks, so here's a little political clout for you: http://buyblue.org/current_campaign.html Now when you spend your money (unfortunately too late for Christmas), you have some idea where your money will be going. I recommend boycotting those misguided corporations that support Republicans exclusively.

[Lord Kügenheim]:

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[bluefarie]: yup... merry x-mas...

[bluefarie]: hello!

[she's gone country]: look at this page.. i doubt bush would like it but y'all might... Brin and Raja...Revealed

[kduncan]: Ok.. so I'm a little stumped Raja, what do your pics have to so with hating President Bush? Here's one you might like: http://elftown.lysator.liu.se/wiki.html?name=Keep+Elftown+Shallow+Free&x=15&y=8&n=1106566180

[she's gone country]: lol absolutly nothing lol that was kinda the point

[kduncan]: So.. the whole point was what? Publicity for your webcam shots? I think that's what Elfpack was created for. I suppose it must have seemed so.. fun.. at the time -- but just imagine, there's no taking it back once it's posted online. What fun, huh?

[Acoustic Sounds]: well, if posting them on the internet was the point, why would they need to be taken off? its nothing to be ashamed of... if you spend your life regretting everything you did what fun would that be? I guess it just depends on how much you care what other people think... and well raja and I don't give a fuck what y'all think about our actions... if we did, we would ask.

[Rondel]: Interesting link, [kduncan]. I suppose that if one were to take the "art site only" approach to its logical extreme, this wiki itself would not exist -- but much as I've enjoyed the venue, I'd gladly give it up if doing so meant that with it went all of the cybersex and other such uses of Elftown as a site. However, there are a couple of other sites you might find interesting, while we're on the subject: http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html (A Group is Its Own Worst Enemy), and http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:-kPEDRaHGNEJ:www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html+%22five+geek+social+fallacies%22&hl=en (Five Geek Social Fallacies). <sigh>

[kduncan]: Toneless, I'm not saying you should care what anyone thinks about your actions, after all, isn't that what the US is all wrapped up in since Bush took office: Not caring a whit about the rest of the world and what it thinks? However, everything we do, whether we like it or not, has repercussions on ourselves, on others, and on the future. If you don't give a whit what others think you should at least care about your own future. It's not just "cute sixteen and seventeen year old guys" looking at your pics, there are some seriously disturbed people cruising the internet.

[kduncan]: Rondel, I agree (as I seem to do alot with your statements here and elsewhere). I read both of those articles (got the links from Skydancers forum), and found them interesting. As a parent I find it disturbing to see teens (minors, if you will) exposing themselves online for nothing more than giggles; or in some cases cold, hard cash. Art photography is one thing, but webcam exposure is another entirely (a male friend of mine referred to them as "webcam whores".. not my term mind you, his). Politics have historically been an important aspect of art, and artists have always been at the forefront of criticising those in power even as they have readily taken money in the form of

[kduncan]: commissions from those same people. My art is political in nature.. and always has been. Indeed, it seems to be something I can't seem to keep out of my art.

[Acoustic Sounds]: what you said makes sense, I didn't really think about it that way

[Rondel]: Thanks for the reponse; it's nice to know that someone reads those links... :) ...you never really know who is reading these things when you throw them out onto the web this way. But then, that was kind of the point you were making with [Acoustic Sounds] -- once something goes on the web, you've got no clue who is going to be seeing it, or what they're going to be doing with it. I recently found my daughter's artwork stolen from our website and reposted elsewhere -- but because I don't post photos of her, I don't have to worry that the next thing stolen and reposted will be her baby pictures, to be displayed for sale on some kind of "pedonet". That may sound like an extreme example...

[Rondel]: ...but then, who would have expected someone to steal the artwork of a 6-year-old? That sounds like paranoid ravings, but it happened, just this last week. And who would have expected that one of the photos I saw when I logged onto Elftown today - on Main Street, mind you - was nothing more than a photograph of someone's breasts? Seriously, people seem to have lost sight of the basic fact that once your photo is on the web, billions of people have potential access to it, and it doesn't take a high ratio of pervs to make it likely that one of the people who actually sees it will be a perv. And do you really trust a perv not to steal your photos and repost them for other pervs to "enjoy"?

[Rondel]: To bring this back to our stated topic, that's a lot like trusting someone who a) lied to start a war, and b) has a vested interest in control of the losing nation's resources (now under their control), as well as c) having a vested financial interest in companies involved in infrastructure reconstruction... ...to be in charge of ensuring equity and fair play and a rapid disengagement from the nation the war has left in their power. Or, for that matter, trusting the engineering of a democratic government which respects human rights, to a government involved in the revocation of its own citizens' basic human rights and ability to participate in the democratic process.

[Panda-monium]: well....someday I may read all that. But not tonight :P

[kduncan]: Besides the fact that there are some very seedy characters cruising the internet, we also have to take into consideration that the internet is an international forum. While I understand that some minors are more mature than others in their judgement, and even more mature than some adults, and that some show a great deal of thought and maturity in what they do, many are not. This is why, in the US and many other countries, minors are prevented from entering contracts on their own. And yes, a person who has the benefit of showing intelligent forethought as to their actions may well decide to post artistic nude photos of him or herself online;

[kduncan]: however, these are the same people who will post those photos in the appropriate forums for works like that.. and who don't shove them in other people's face without a warning as to what is in those photos before one actually sees them. To post a blind link and say essentially ""haha.. we don't care what you think" shows immaturity and a lack of forethought, as well as a lack of respect for the cultures of other people around the world who may hold very different values. While there is nothing inherently wrong in the nude human form, many cultures around the world hold the ideal that the human body (and particularly females) should remain descretely and modestly covered;

[kduncan]: and even though we may not hold those same values, we have to respect the fact that the internet is an international forum. No, people shouldn't base their judgement of an entire nation or people on what a few individuals do, but the fact is that most people do exactly that.

[Goldice]: i never knew how poular this wiki would get. i think me and kugy have done a good job

[Rondel]: Excellent point (again), [kduncan]! Whether we realize it or not, whether we like it or not, whether we wish to bear this burden or not, *each and every one of us* becomes an ambassador for, and representative of, our nation, whenever we operate in an international forum. This holds true of the person making choices about when, where, and how to post nude pictures of themselves, just as it does for tourists, just as it does for government officials, just as it does for the average person who creates a website and has to decide what address or phone number format(s) to allow, just as it does for the moderator of a wiki or an IRC channel. Yet the US shows quite poorly by all those standards.

[Rondel]: The really sad thing is that I know that there are many wonderful people in and among the population of the US -- and I think it's sad that the few, the prominent, the thoughtless, so often wind up representing so many who are *not* like them, whether among the "loyal opposition" or the nation as a whole. <sigh>

[she's gone country]: i have read all your comments about tha fact that we were posting ourselves on the internet not as to feed the minds of old men but as for fun but realizing that these people can look at it whether we want them to or not has brought a sincere point. i appreciate taking our intentions into consideration while guiding us to do the best for ourselves and our own respect.

[bluefarie]: wow, what is all this got 2 do w/ hating bush???

[kduncan]: Well, ~black_dove~, on the surface it has nothing directly to do with hating Bush. However, if you look a bit deeper, it does relate to the general state of the US today that we can somehow "go it alone": that the rest of the world's people are "either with us or agin us", and that if they're "agin" us then we don't give a god damn what the hell they think. Shoot, if they're with us we don't give a god damn what the hell what they think, just so long as they're with us.

[Rondel]: [she's gone country], [Acoustic Sounds], I'm really glad that you have chosen to listen to the actual intended message here, which is not "you are bad", but "some other people are bad, and once something's made public, you don't have a way to decide who has access to it, or be sure that the bad people (or people making bad choices, or having bad boundaries) are not among them". It takes serious maturity to understand that this is not a black & white issue where a person must be condemning *you* in order to have concern over your actions. To once again bring this back to Bush, I wish that more of his supporters would realize that many people have a right to an opinion on his actions.

[Rondel]: I know that I, for one, learned some of these lessons the hard way as a teen, and I'd rather others spare themselves that, which is more likely if they have someone who will honestly address those issues. Learning from history in order not to repeat it is a principle which works as well on the personal level as it does on the presidential/historical level. A choice can risk consequences bad enough to make it not a good choice, even if one is trying to do the right thing, for what one believes is the right reason; yet that is a confusing lesson, to many. One can overlook potential consequences if one forgets that others have a different perspective on one's acts.

[Rondel]: It explains a lot about how the world works -- whether that choice is to put pictures of oneself up for one's own reasons, not stopping think about the motives of those who might choose to view them (i.e. overlooking the "dirty old perv" factor), or a choice to make war against a nation of people who have not initiated conflict against one, with no provable reason to be treated as enemies, while involving many other nations in the conflict (overlooking the fact that involving the soldiers of other nations means a world full of widows of one's war, all of whom have a right to an opinion on the choices which led to their husbands' deaths). In sum, both acts involve many people often forgotten.

[kduncan]: Wouldn't it be great if Bush had the personal courage and fortitude to say, "Look, I made a mistake. I just wasn't thinking about the consequences of my actions, or those of my fellow Americans, and I was wrong." If only he'd had the strength of character in 2000 to say, "It looks as though there may have been some election irregularities in Florida. So that there is no question as to whom the American people have chosen to be their next President, I'm calling for a recount and an investigation into those irregularities."

[Rondel]: That would seriously have earned my respect! But then, if he were the kind of person to do that, he'd already *have* my respect, and be less in need of a way to earn it (speaking as an American and a member of the voting public). <sigh>

[kduncan]: Yeah.

[bluefarie]: k...it's just a lot of reading & as it is on the computer, it hurts my eyes....i didn't mean 2 sound dumb/ shallow...srry

[Rondel]: No worries... :) ...and no need to apologize, at least so ar as I can see.

[Lord Kügenheim]:

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE

[bluefarie]: thnx!!!! ( i hope this coming year is better than last year..)

[Dil*]: happy new year all!

[bluefarie]: yes, happy new year 2 u 2...!

[Maurer's conclusions]: Black Dove, with Bush as pres, I doubt it will get any better...

[Goldice]: happy new year you lot

[Lord Kügenheim]: you never know, he could get ran over by a milk float or something... ^^

[Maurer's conclusions]: or fall off of his bike again, and become mortally wounded.

[radiomaker]: or fall from the horse

[Goldice]: his high horse you mean

[Lord Kügenheim]: or choke on a pretzel XD

[Maurer's conclusions]: I just found a quote from the Vietnam war by an unknown officer, after a USAF airstrike destroyed the town. I find it similar to the attitude that the US military of today has.

[Maurer's conclusions]: "It became necessary to destroy the town in order to save it."

[Dil*]: ...wtf?

[Maurer's conclusions]: What?

[Dil*]: what a dumb thing to say...you can't destroy a town to save it..it defies logic.

[Maurer's conclusions]: Exactly...

[bluefarie]: wtf does that mean??? i don't get it...

[wwwwwwwww]: hello everyone

[Goldice]: hey.i'm part of the official welcoming commitee so hi!!

[bluefarie]: hi...!

[Mitreft]: hello

[Peace_Turtles]: Bush is going to hell and is gonna get butt-fucked by Satan and I will be there laughing at him and bitch slaping him!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to hell bush!

[Mitsune]: Wow... brutal.

[Peace_Turtles]: I hate that basterd....and i will hate him forever

[bluefarie]: that makes me think of the movie "little nicky" when satan shoves a pineapple up hitler's butt...*giggles*

[Dil*]: lmao, i remember that.

[bluefarie]: yep...wasn't that funny...

[Peace_Turtles]: Yeah....lmao

[Goldice]: i haven't seen it

[bobbina]: i havent seen that either! lol

[bluefarie]: really? ah, it's an okay movie...*eh*

[nokaredes]: January 20st is 'Not A Dime' Day, where there will be a silent protest against Dubya, and his fake policies and his fake war and everything he stands for by spending no money that day.

[Lord Kügenheim]: heh ^^ sounds fun to me!

[kduncan]: You can read more about "Not One Damn Dime Day" in my Elftown house.

[bobbina]: nice one.

[Peace_Turtles]: Did anyone notice in Far.9-11...Bush was holding the book up-side down! LOser!

[bluefarie]: *LMAO*

[Peace_Turtles]: Yeah, i bet he was thinking 'Im screwed" lol

[bobbina]: he is screwed!

[nokaredes]: no, only America.

[bobbina]: true

[Peregrinus]: Woot! Farenheit (sp?) 911 won people's choice for best film!

[nokaredes]: IT DID?!?!! When was that?!?! I missed it! It went up against Shrek and The Incredibles and I wanted to see it!!! :'(

[Peregrinus]: It was last night. And actually, not the Incredibles, bu Spider Man 2. The Incredibles wasn't even mentioned.

[nokaredes]: hmm...I heard it was the Incredibles. I missed it! :'(

[Peregrinus]: I did too actually, but apparently not.

[nokaredes]: I found that somewhere...

[Peregrinus]: What the hell...

[nokaredes]: I know! exactly...

[Peace_Turtles]: I saw a video of him flicking off the camra! and he was laughing about it after he did it!

[bluefarie]: wow...

[VorpalBlade910]: is it true that he waved to Stevey Wonder...who's blind?

[bluefarie]: that's funny...

[I am no longer existant]: hey everyone...this is something you gotta see....I found it on the internet

[I am no longer existant]: http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:r5nKbIoFhTIJ:www.freakingnews.com/entries/1000/1129CHjG_small.jpg

[bluefarie]: lol..

[Dil*]: lmao

[I am no longer existant]: http://www.webbusiness.no/webprivat/usa/upfiles/bush_monkey.jpg

[I am no longer existant]: he is a monkey...

[VorpalBlade910]: i hate monkies...

[bluefarie]: hee...

[nokaredes]: me too.

[bluefarie]: funny..

[Peace_Turtles]: Monkeys are evil...they play with there crap and throw it around in a festive manner!

[Peace_Turtles]: what an idiot!!!!! http://www.exego.net/notes/eitan/user/George%20Bush%201.JPG

[Peregrinus]: Hehehehehe...

[bluefarie]: that's hilarious...!

[Peace_Turtles]: He makes me ashamed to be an "American" what dose it mean to be "american"? KIlling innocent lives?

[bluefarie]: & that we're stupid...?

[bobbina]: woohoo! im bored and random! yey!

[bluefarie]: hi!

[kiss will kill you86]: hey I wanna join the wiki

[Goldice]: o yeah cool this is my wiki. i'll add you

[HowseR]: yo could me n [+BoothY+] bcum a member, stupid president bush, i h8 him soooo much!

[Goldice]: if you learn to use proper english yes.me and kugy are fed of of tidying peoples entries

[Peace_Turtles]: Thats a bit mean....

[Lord Kügenheim]: not really. its not as if you havent got all the alphabet layed out infront of you.

[Peace_Turtles]: true lol

[bobbina]: im a aunt!!! woohoo! my bros gf gave birth to a baby girl last nite!!! im only 16!! lol

[Lord Kügenheim]: yay ^^ congrats to your brother from all at the BHA!

[bobbina]: thanks hun! CHEERS! WOOHOO!

[Peace_Turtles]: CONGRATS!!!!!!

[bobbina]: thanks! aunty charlotte haha. they named the baby Mckenna Stella Hayes. i like it.

[Peace_Turtles]: Cute name!

[bobbina]: yeh its nice. got a ring to it lol

[Peace_Turtles]: i know thats why it cute :P you are so lucky to be an aunt....

[bobbina]: i guess. god im knackerd im off to bed. we will carry on this convo next time ok breezynite? nitey nite huni. take fuckin gud care of urself! woohoo! laters xxx

[Peace_Turtles]: lol you too!

[bluefarie]: ok....im an aunt 2...my niece's name is Kennedy..:)

[Peace_Turtles]: DAMN! all i am is a sister and its not great....

[bluefarie]: lol

[nokaredes]: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/bush.100/images/cut.row2.col4.bush.pic.jpg could it be? a picture of him thinking?